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Star Trek: Discovery - Official Thread

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by David S. Peterson, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. johnnybear

    johnnybear Agent

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    More proof that DSC takes place in an alternate reality far removed from what we now of TOS! Well said RobertR!
    JB
     
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  2. Josh Dial

    Josh Dial Producer

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    No. There isn't any sort of mystical knowledge possessed by a few brave fans, which can, should those fans be generous, reveal "the truth" behind The Lore.

    Simply put: Star Trek canon is a complete an utter mess, bordering on nonexistent (or nonsensical).

    To be clear, the show itself isn't to blame, nor are the writers (for the most part at least). TOS was a product of many things: it's time (storytelling was different in the 60s), the budget (it looked and sounded great, but imaginations were hampered by money constraints), and the way shows were written and broadcast.

    Many of these issues--especially story and industry issues--impacted TNG and the first few seasons of DS9. Spec scripts, good and bad writers (and awful writers!), writers strikes, and a television machine that didn't want (and barely conceived of) lengthy story arcs and ongoing character development. Pages and pages of theory has been written about how and when this all changed. Was it Twin Peaks? Was it Babylon 5? Did it even really change until the DS9 re-imaging? All interesting arguments among many.

    In any event, the result is clear: Star Trek canon never made much sense.

    United Earth Space Probe Agency gets a few throwaway references but that's it. Ranks make absolutely no sense. The Federation-Cardassian War is classic ret-conning.

    Sure, there are ancient internet posts where fans attempt to make everything make sense. You can unearth usenet fossils and read about exactly how the rank structure works, and why it "works." However, don't mistake an explanation for the explanation, for canon.

    Heck, even Gene's fundamental vision of a post-scarcity Federation fails to cut the internal logic muster. There's no money, but there is money, you don't need money, but you do, you can replicate everything, but you can't, there are federation colonies where citizens barely scrape out a living (because it makes for a good tale), but there is no rhyme or reason as to why some are poor and some are rich.

    The Federation itself makes little sense, and the internal politics/functioning are virtually nonexistent. There's a Federation President, and Starfleet is not the military, but it performs quasi-military duties (including fighting ret-conned wars against the Cardassians). When ships visit (poor/rich) colonies, what power does Starfleet have? It's both unclear and always changing.

    All told, the "canon" shifts to suit the story. This is fine, but let's not pretend it's anything but that.
     
  3. johnnybear

    johnnybear Agent

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    You know what, you're absolutely correct! A lot of things about Trek don't make sense! Money for instance and the political aspects of the show! Even in Gene's time it was not clear! Kirk's chat about diamonds in Arena is overridden in Catspaw and the like saying how they could make their own diamonds and that in this era they're not worth anything (or was it Squire of Gothos?, I can't remember) but anyway different writers and producers usually do screw up what other writers and producers have already done! My only gripe was them saying DSC was set 10 years earlier in the same universe as TOS!!! Which is them force feeding their view upon us the viewer!
    JB
     
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  4. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    This doesn't sound good to me.

    "This is not entirely the Spock who has been formed enough to be the Spock that we know from TOS. There's a lot of story about who Spock was before he becomes the Spock that is the yin-yang to Kirk," Kurtzman told TV Guide. "What I'm so excited about is that we have an opportunity to present a version of Spock that's both totally consistent with the Spock everyone knows but very, very different. And it's all gonna tie to how we sync up with canon."

    http://www.tvguide.com/news/star-trek-discovery-season-2-spock-different/
     
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  5. RobertR

    RobertR Executive Producer

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    It's the same character, but not the same character? That's ridiculous and nonsensical. People have been trying to argue that this version of Trek takes place in the same reality as the old series. This sure doesn't sound like it is at all. They could have avoided this mess by not trying to go to the past. I hate it when writers decide they want to use the same name, but aren't interested in being true to the character.
     
  6. johnnybear

    johnnybear Agent

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    Every time I get a link to a US TV page I get swamped with the I accept Cookies and other rubbish so I usually just switch off! All I know is the TOS Spock is Leonard Nimoy and we know that he's sadly gone and will never play Spock again so it's just more proof of an alternate reality show!
    JB
     
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  7. Message #1807 of 1847 Aug 4, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
    Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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  8. johnnybear

    johnnybear Agent

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    I'm concerned that with Patrick back onboard the DSC producers and writers may get him to mention the Discovery and it's adventures in his show so as to persuade people to get in on the show!
    But for me that just means that new Picard is also from another reality so there producers!
    JB
     
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  9. Neil Middlemiss

    Neil Middlemiss Producer
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    Isn't it going to get a little warm with your head buried beneath your pillow? Don't forget to come up for air every now and then!
     
  10. Greg.K

    Greg.K Screenwriter

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    :rolleyes:
     
  11. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    Neil, you got the hat trick - all three of us Joshes liked your post! :D
     
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  12. joshEH

    joshEH Producer

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    [​IMG]
     
  13. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    The hat trick!
     
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  14. NeilO

    NeilO Producer

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  15. TJPC

    TJPC Cinematographer

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    1 Disc for $50!!!!???
     
  16. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    From the article linked:

     
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  17. TJPC

    TJPC Cinematographer

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    Amazon.com has never been famous for its accuracy. I realized it must be wrong, but I was trying to make a point.
     
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  18. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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  19. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    Assuming they can get the eyebrows right, he's actually a closer resemblance than Zachary Quinto.

    Still seems strange that Spock will have all of these formative experiences with the Discovery that he never mentions again.
     
  20. Jason_V

    Jason_V Producer

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    Agreed. That's my major problem. But I can either keep complaining about that and be a stick in the mud or I can enjoy the show for what it is. I hafta go with the latter at this point in my life.
     

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